A new list.

Jonathon Philp wants to raise an army of Lydians, but queries how war-dogs and their handlers might be represented.

My suggestion is that they be fielded as Skirmish Order Average Medium Infantry, armed with Sidearm only.  

I think that a Medium Infantry rating is better than a Light Infantry rating as I'd certainly want to wear armour if regularly handling war-dogs, and it fits with the idea of the handlers being selected King's Servants or the like.

	SPECIAL TROOPS
	0-1	War Dogs & Handlers	SO	Av	MI	8	.	16

A New Army List from John O (Malekithau).

The Hurrians were a people originating in the vicinity of Armenia. They are believed to have introduced the Maryannu system to the Middle East. The Maryannu were essentially chariot born nobility who ruled over their subjects in a very similar manner to the feudal system. The Maryannu were expected to render military service when requested by their king and to provide a contingent of lesser troops. The Maryannu were hereditary land holders who were expected to provide their own equipment and this did mean that the provincial Maryannu were quite often not as well equipped as those located in or close to a major city. The Maryannu system was adopted by many nations throughout the Middle East and Hurrians are believed to have provided the aristocracy in many Syrian cities even after the fall of the Mitanni Empire.

The Mitanni Empire arose on the upper reaches of the Tigris River with their capital located at Washagunni. The empire at its height stretched from Canaan, Anatolia and Assyria, whom they are reported to have reduced to vassalage. Mitanni finally fell after an internal power struggle involving the Hurrians of Hurri Land who allied with the Hittites. The Hittites took advantage of this and invaded in support of a pretender to the throne. The Mitanni were reduced to vassalage.

Thus ended the Mitanni Empire who had rivalled the Hittites, Egyptians and Assyrians. It is possible that remnants of the Hurrians were the founders of Urartu (The Kingdom of Van) who were a constant thorn in the Assyrians sides but that is another list!

	No	Base Type	Ord	Exp	Wgt	Str	Weapons	Pts
	3-8	Provincial Maryannu	2H	Vet	LCh	10	UD, 1+BO, LS, SH	26
	1-3	Alik Ilku Spearmen	CO	Avg	MI	12	LS, SH	28
	1-3	Alik Ilku Bowmen	CO	Avg	MI	12	BO	26
	0-2	Ashabu	OO	Lvy	MI	8	LS, BO	20
	0-2	Martu Javelinmen	SO	Avg	LI	8	LS, SH	16
	0-2	Nomad Warriors	OO	Avg	MI	10	LS, SH	24
	0-1	Nomad Slingers	SO	Avg	LI	8	SL	14
	0-1	Nomad Archers	SO	Avg	LI	8	BO	14
	Special Troops
	0-3	Royal Maryannu	2H	Elt	HCh	12	UD, 1+BO, LS, SH	30
	0-1	Mar Shipri Scouts	SO	Avg	LC	9	BO	16
	Officers as 2-horse Light chariots Alik Ilku spearmen and archers may be combined on bases though minimums still apply so 2 mixed bases would be required. Cost per base 27 points. Royal and Provincial Maryannu may add chariot runners at a cost of +2 points per base, armed with LS, SH (+1 strength)
	Allies
	Syrians
	No	Base Type	Ord	Exp	Wgt	Str	Weapons	Pts
	1-2	Light Chariots	2H	Vet	LCh	10	UD, 1+BO, LS, SH	20
	1-3	Spearmen	OO	Avg	MI	10	LS, SH	18
	0-2	Archers	SO	Avg	LI	8	BO	11
	0-2	Javelinmen	SO	Avg	LI	8	LS, SH	12
	Officers as 2-horse Light chariots 2-horse Light Chariots may add chariot runners at a cost of +2 points per base, armed with LS, SH (+1 strength) Points already at ¾ normal cost.

.
Amendment 1
	Greg Pugh points out that the number of Cavalry bases allowed in this list is excessive. The appropriate line in the list should now read as follows:
	.
	No	Base Type	Ord	Exp	Wgt	Str	Weapons	Pts
	1-3	Cavalry	OO	Avg	MC	11	LS, SH	26
	.
Amendment 2
	.
	Paul Marsh, aka Other Paul, add to Greg's suggestion by pointing out that the Indian cavalry were by far the worst part of the army, and that the Indian infantry have been unfairly classed as Levy. The appropriate lines of the list should therefore now read:
	.
	No	Base Type	Ord	Exp	Wgt	Str	Weapons	Pts
	1-3	Cavalry	OO	Lvy	MC	9	LS, SH	22
	2-4	Bowmen	CO	Avg	MI	12	2H, LB	28
	2-4	Spearmen	CO	Avg	MI	12	LS, 2H, SH	30
	Bowmen and Spearmen may be downgraded to Levy (-2 STR) at a cost of -4 points per base. Indians may field either 2H chariots or 4H chariots, but not both.

Amendment
	Jonathan Philp suggests that Etruscans should have the option to field a number of better quality troops: "infantry are classed as levy but the Etruscan Infantry included the city elites who were equipped as early hoplites, plus the Etrusco-Roman army of the 6th century are said to have had the majority of its 1st class troops ( Vet HI ) being of Etruscan decent ( see Peter Connolly - Greece & Rome at war etc).  Perhaps a formal option to upgrade part of the infantry force to the same  level as  Roman 1st class troops should be allowed.  After all it was a lack of manpower not class that told against the Etruscans." Therefore the Etruscans are now allowed an additional Special Troops base:
	No	Base Type	Ord	Exp	Wgt	Str	Weapons	Pts
	0-1	City Elite	CO	Vet	HI	14	HS, SH	36
	.
	.

.
Amendment
	Paul Caspall (Russcat) correctly points out that the Sabines, Samnites and Umbrians are Open Order infantry in their own list, but miraculously transform into Close Order infantry when appearing as Allies to other armies!   All Allied list infantry should now be classed as follows:
	.
	No	Base Type	Ord	Exp	Wgt	Str	Weapons	Pts
	~	Infantry	OO	Avg	MI	10	LS, SH	18
	.
	.

Amendment - The Spartans
	Paul Marsh, aka Other Paul,  has suggested an expansion of the Spartan list that reflects declining Spartan manpower.   He has reduced their numbers and made it possible to field a Spartan army without any actual Spartans in it, as some Spartan armies of the period were Spartan led but little else.  He has also adopted nomenclature adapted from Gates of Fire:  most apt! The list for the "Spartans" section of the main list should now read as follows:
	.
	No	Base Type	Ord	Exp	Wgt	Str	Weapons	Pts
	0-6	Peers	CO	Elt	MI	16	HS, SH	36
	0-4	Perioikoi	CO	Vet	MI	14	HS, SH	32
	1-3	Horse	CO	Lvy	MC	11	LS, SH	26
	0-1	Cretans	CO	Avg	MI	12	BO	26
	SPECIAL TROOPS
	0-1	Knights	CO	Elt	HI	16	HS, SH	40
	.
	Thracians and Paphlagonians may be fielded not as allies but under Spartan command.  Only one or the other may be fielded. Knights should not be fielded unless one base of Peers is fielded and the most senior officer is a General.
	..

Amendment
	Greg Pugh points out that the extra bases allowed for the Seleucid army does not allow Argyraspids to be armed and armoured as Romans.   Paul Marsh points out that there should be two bases of Argyraspids allowed:  early armies should have both as Pike, later armies could have one Pike and one "Romanised".   The appropriate part of the lists should now read:
	.
	No	Base Type	Ord		Exp	Wgt	Str		Weapons	Pts
	0-2	Argyraspids	CO		Elt	MI	16		PI, SH	36
	0-1	Roman Argyraspids	CO		Vet	HI	14		HW, SH	36
	.
	Only two bases of Argyraspids may be fielded.  Early armies may field up to two pike-armed bases.  Later armies may field on pike-armed and one Roman-armed base.
	..
Further Amendments
	Paul Marsh has now further developed his thoughts on the Seleucid list.  To his mind, the Seleucids should be divided into an Early and a Late period, with the force ratios adjusted as follows:
	Base Type			Early				Late
	Other Cavalry			1				1
	Skythians			0-1				0-1
	Tarantines			0-1				0-1
	Phalangites			1-4				1-4
	Asiatic Lights			1				1
	Mercenary Archers			0-1				0-1
	Peltasts			1				1
	Cyrtii			0-1				0-1
	Elephants			0-1				0-1
	Special Troops
	Argyraspids			1 per 2 Phalangites				1
	Companions			1 per 3 Other Cavalry				1 per 3 Other Cavalry
	Agema			1 per 3 Other Cavalry				1 per 3 Other Cavalry
	Scythed Chariots			0-1				0-1
	Roman Argyraspids			0				1
	Artillery			0				0-1
	Agema and Other Cavalry should be EHC in the Later period.

Amendment
	Paul Caspall (Russcat) points out that chariots should not be compulsory for Gallic armies, and that Soldurri Bodyguard infantry were also often more heavily armoured than their Warriors equivalents.  The appropriate lines in the list should now read as follows:
	.
	No	Base Type	Ord	Exp	Wgt	Str	Weapons	Pts
	0-4	Chariots	2H	Vet	LCh	10	UD, 1+LS	22
	SPECIAL TROOPS
	0-1	Soldurii Bodyguard	OO	Elt	MI	14	LS, SH	32
	.
	Soldurii Bodyguard infantry may be upweighted to front rank Heavy Infantry at a cost of +2 points per base, or to all Heavy Infantry at a cost of +4 points per base.
	..

.
Amendment
	Paul Marsh, aka Other Paul,  has suggested amendments for the Galatian list based on the following:  Cavalry was, like most Gallic cultures, numerous and composed of the tribal nobility as were the charioteers.  Like the Spanish and Germans, Galatian cavalry often had runners operating with them but this should be limited to 1 in 3 cavalry bases as Galatians were notoriously short of skirmishers.  Gallic fanatics disdained the use of armour and hence any Gallic troops up-armoured, in all lists, should lose Elite gradings as here.  By the time of the late first century BC and the advent of Imitation Legionaries Galatian fanaticism was long dead along with the use of chariots. So, any army fielding Legionaries cannot field Elite Warriors or any type of chariot. All other options/exclusions still apply. The appropriate lines of the list should therefore now read as follows:
	.
	No	Base Type	Ord	Exp	Wgt	Str	Weapons	Pts
	1-3	Noble Cavalry	OO	Vet	MC	13	LS, SH	30
	0-2	Chariots	2H	Vet	Lgt	9	UD, 1+LS	22
	Special Troops
	0-1	Bodyguard	CO	Vet	HI	12	LS, SH	32
	.
	Up to 1/3 of Noble Cavalry bases may have a runner added (+1 STR) at a cost of +2 points per base. Any Galatian army fielding Imitation Legionaries may not upgrade Warriors to Elite not field any chariots.
	..

Amendment
	Paul Marsh, aka Other Paul,  has suggested additions to the Parthian list.  The Militia are ex-hellenistic settlers and count as Special Troops; the Elymaians are vassals of the Parthian empire. The appropriate lines of the list are:
	No	Base Type	Ord	Exp	Wgt	Str	Weapons	Pts
	0-1	Elymaians	OO	Av	MI	10	BO	22
	SPECIAL TROOPS
	0-1	Militia	OO	Lvy	MI	8	HS, LS, SH	22
	.
	Elymaians may be downgraded to Ally status at a cost of -5 points per base.
	..

.
Amendment
	Paul Caspall (Russcat) points out that German cavalry were often accompanied by specific detachments of light infantry.  Although this can be simulated in the rules by giving a Skirmishers base Guard orders on a Noble Cavalry base, Paul suggests that it might be better to give the cavalry base Runners in the same way that a chariot base can be given Runners.  He also points out that using Chatti as a general catch-all for elite tribesmen and bodyguard units is perhaps not correct, and that the list should allow for Veteran tribesmen as well. The appropriate lines in the list should now read as follows:
	.
	No	Base Type	Ord	Exp	Wgt	Str	Weapons	Pts
	1	Noble Cavalry	OO	Vet	MC	13	LS, SH	30
	3-8	Warriors	OO	Avg	MI	10	½HS, ½LS, SH	24
	Special Troops
	0-6	Chatti or similar	OO	Elt	MI	14	½HS, ½LS, SH	32
	.
	Officers as Heavy Cavalry or Infantry. The front rank of the cavalry may be upgraded to Heavy at a cost of +2 points per base. Any Noble Cavalry base may be given a light infantry runner armed with LS at a cost of +2 points per base (+1 Strength). Up to half the Warriors bases fielded may be upgraded to Veteran at a cost of +4 points per base (+2 Strength).
	..

Introduction
	Niall Orr suggests that the Sassanid Persian army list (VB56) needs expanding to take into account how the army changed over time.  He suggests dividing the army into four distinct periods, as shown below. Jonathan Philp suggests that the Sassanid infantry has long been underestimated:   "Levy could easily be Provincial/city milita, but troops that are King's Men or Satrap forces would be experienced, hence should have an option of upgrading to Average."  He also points us towards the discussion of Sassanid forces in recent Slingshots.   Players therefore have the option of upgrading up to one quarter of the Levy Infantry present to Average at a cost of +4 points per base (+2 Strength).
Early Period
	No	Base Type	Ord	Exp	Wgt	Str	Weapons	Pts
	1-2	Guard Clibanarii	OO	Vet	EHC	13	LA, BO	38
	1-4	Clibanarii	OO	Vet	HC	13	LA, BO	34
	All other troops as per list.
Middle Period
	No	Base Type	Ord	Exp	Wgt	Str	Weapons	Pts
	1-2	Guard Clibanarii	OO	Vet	EHC	13	LA, BO	38
	1-4	Clibanarii	OO	Vet	EHC	13	LA, BO	38
	Up to half of Guard Clibanarii bases may add SH at +2 points per base. All other troops as per list.
Late Period
	No	Base Type	Ord	Exp	Wgt	Str	Weapons	Pts
	1-2	Guard Clibanarii	OO	Vet	EHC	13	LA, BO, SH	40
	1-4	Clibanarii	OO	Vet	EHC	13	LA, BO	38
	Up to half of Clibanarii bases may add SH at +2 points per base. All other troops as per list.
Very Late Period
	No	Base Type	Ord	Exp	Wgt	Str	Weapons	Pts
	0-1	Guard Clibanarii	OO	Vet	EHC	13	LA, BO, SH	40
	1-2	Clibanarii	OO	Vet	EHC	13	LA, BO	38
	1-2	Levy Spearmen	OO	Lvy	MI	8	HS, SH	20
	Clibanarii bases may add SH at +2 points per base. A Very Late Sassanid Persian army must have Allies. All other troops as per list.

Expansion of List 57:  Wei, Shu, Wu, Tsin & Sui Chinese
	Jonathan Philp suggests that list 57 can be made more specific for the Western T'sin armies of the period 189BC - 316AD. The list reads:
	.
	No	Base Type	Ord	Exp	Wgt	Str	Weapons	Pts
	1-2	Heavy Cavalry	CO	Vet	HC	15	LA, SH	38
	0-1	Heavy Cavalry	CO	Av	HC	13	LA, SH	34
	1	Horse Archers	SO	Av	LC	9	BO	16
	0-1	Light Cavalry	OO	Av	LC	11	LA	24
	2-6	Spearmen	CO	Av	HI	12	HS, SH	32
	0-2	Mixed Infantry	CO	Av	HI	12	½CB/½HS, SH	31
	2-6	Bowmen	CO	Av	MI	12	CB or BO	26
	0-1	Auxiliary	OO	Av	MI	10	LS, SH	24
	0-1	Auxiliary	OO	Av	HI	10	HS	26
	0-1	Bolt Shooter		Av	Mdm	9	BS	20
	SPECIAL TROOPS
	0-1	Guard Spearmen	CO	Vet	HI	14	HS, SH	36
	0-1	Guard Cavalry	CO	Elt	HC	17	LA or PO	40
	0-1	"Dare to Die"	OO	Vet	HI	12	2H	30
	.
	Heavy Infantry Spearmen may be downgraded to Medium Infantry at a cost of -4 points per base. Average quality infantry may be downgraded to Levy (-2 STR) at a cost of -4 points per base.
	..

Expansion of List 57:  Wei, Shu, Wu, Tsin & Sui Chinese
	Jonathan Philp suggests that list 57 can be made more specific for the Eastern T'sin armies of the period 317AD. The list reads:
	.
	No	Base Type	Ord	Exp	Wgt	Str	Weapons	Pts
	1	Cataphracts	CO	Vet	EHC	15	LA	40
	1	Heavy Cavalry	CO	Vet	HC	15	LA, SH	38
	1-2	Horse Archers	SO	Av	LC	9	BO	16
	2-6	Spearmen	CO	Av	MI	12	HS, SH	28
	0-2	Swordsmen	CO	Av	HI	12	2H	30
	2-6	Bowmen	CO	Av	MI	12	CB or BO	26
	0-1	Tribal Warriors	OO	Av	MI	10	LS, SH	24
	0-1	Tribal Skirmishers	SO	Av	LI	8	BO	14
	0-1	Bolt Shooter		Av	Mdm	9	BS	20
	SPECIAL TROOPS
	0-1	Guard Spearmen	CO	Vet	HI	14	HS, SH	36
	0-1	Guard Cavalry	CO	Elt	HC	17	LA	40
	0-1	"Dare to Die"	OO	Vet	HI	12	2H	30
	0-1	Elephant		Av		9	UD, 2+LS	22
	.
	Spearmen may be upgraded to Heavy Infantry at a cost of +4 points per base. Average quality infantry may be downgraded to Levy (-2 STR) at a cost of -4 points per base.
	..

Amendment
	Paul Caspall (Russcat) has now augmented his earlier research, and suggests that the Hunnic list should read as shown below.
	No	Base Type	Ord	Exp	Wgt	Str	Weapons	Pts
	0-1	Nobles	OO	Vet	HC	13	LA, BO, SH	36
	4-12	Cavalry	SO	Vet	LC	11	LS, BO, SH	24
	0-8	Train	.	Av	.	10	Wagons	20
	Officers as Heavy Cavalry. A Hunnic army may field a "horsetails" Army Standard mounted on the base of the most senior Officer present. One base of Noble cavalry may act as a bodyguard to the most senior officer present. Noble cavalry may be re-weighted to front rank Heavy Cavalry and back rank Light Cavalry (H/LC) at a cost of -4 points per base. Any Cavalry bases may be upgraded to Open Order at a cost of +4 points per base (+2 Strength). If any Cavalry bases are upgraded to Open Order, then up to half of these Open Order Cavalry bases may be up-weighted to M/LC with captured armour at a cost of +2 points per base.
	Allies
	Alans
	No	Base Type	Ord	Exp	Wgt	Str	Weapons	Pts
	0-1	Noble Cavalry	OO	Av	HC	11	LA, BO	23
	2-4	Cavalry	SO	Av	LC	9	LS, BO, SH	15
	Officers as ExtraHeavy or Heavy Cavalry. Noble Cavalry may have front rank EHC at a cost of +2 points per base. Minimums apply only if any Alans are fielded.
	Gepids
	No	Base Type	Ord	Exp	Wgt	Str	Weapons	Pts
	1	Heavy Cavalry	OO	Av	HC	11	LS, SH	23
	0-1	Other Cavalry	OO	Lvy	MC	11	LS, SH	17
	0-2	Foot Warriors	OO	Lvy	MI	8	HW, SH	15
	0-1	Archers	SO	Lvy	LI	6	BO	8
	Officers as Heavy Cavalry. Minimums apply only if any Gepids are fielded.
	.
	Ostrogoths (including Heruls and Sciri)
	No	Base Type	Ord	Exp	Wgt	Str	Weapons	Pts
	1	Heavy Cavalry	OO	Av	HC	11	LS, SH	23
	0-2	Other Cavalry	OO	Lvy	MC	9	LS, SH	17
	0-3	Archers	SO	Lvy	LI	6	BO	8
	.
	Officers as ExtraHeavy or Heavy Cavalry. Minimums apply only if any Ostrogoths are fielded.
	.
	Other Allies
	No	Base Type	Ord	Exp	Wgt	Str	Weapons	Pts
	0-1	Sarmatians	OO	Lvy	HC	9	LA, BO	26
	1-2	Franks/Rugians	OO	Lvy	MI	8	HW, SH	15
	1-2	Burgundians/Thuringians	OO	Lvy	MI	8	LS, SH	15
	0-1	Mixed Archers	SO	Lvy	LI	6	BO	8
	.
	Sarmatians should be placed under the command of Hunnic Officers. Germanic Infanty subjects should be placed under the command of Gepid, Ostrogothic or Hunnic Officers.  If placed under the command of Hunnic Officers, Germanic MI cost 20 points per base, and LI cost 10 points per base.  If they are taken, Gepid and Ostrogothic Allies must also be taken, and Alans may not be. Minimums apply only if any “Other Allies” are fielded, except Sarmatians.
	.

Paul Caspall has been doing his usual immaculate research job on this list.

Rather than me copy-typing all his work again, you can access a pdf of his latest version of this list by clicking the image, below.

Paul Caspall has been doing his usual immaculate research job on this list.

Rather than me copy-typing all his work again, you can access a pdf of his latest version of this list by clicking the image, below.

Paul Caspall has been doing his usual immaculate research job on this list.

Rather than me copy-typing all his work again, you can access a pdf of his latest version of this list by clicking the image, below.

Paul Caspall has been doing his usual immaculate research job on this list.

Rather than me copy-typing all his work again, you can access a pdf of his latest version of this list by clicking the image, below.

Paul Caspall has been doing his usual immaculate research job on this list.

Rather than me copy-typing all his work again, you can access a pdf of his latest version of this list by clicking the image, below.